Initial thoughts

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Initial thoughts

Post  PierceSc on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:56 pm

Hello!, I'm a masters player and I love playing this game when I want to destress. I'm currently rank 7 captain Great work.

Some things that I have noticed so far:

Thor just seems bad. Maybe there are some units just meant to be fun/trolls. I definitely consider it one of them lol.
siege tank is kind of a double edged sword because its super powerful but can't dodge for crap lol.

I'd like to see some sort of rating system not based on experience like elo.
Reaper is probably the best unit. Maybe the shield can expire when your cool down is finished (So you can just save an extra shield for when you get hit)
Infestor fungal is pretty useless, lobbing balls rarely hits. I think upgrading the ability should increase its radius

Id really love to see a more units!
Instead of things being unlocked by experience it would be nice if you got some sort of currency and chose yourself what you want to get. If you are a better player and get lots of kills you could gain bonuses.
It would be nice if different balls had significant pros and cons rather than just aesthetics. (like balls in row 1 move slightly faster but are smaller or something)

So yeah those are my opinions. Love the game a lot Very Happy

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Re: Initial thoughts

Post  RuffRidah on Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:57 pm

Here we go--people already experts on balance at this game.

I don't completely disagree on balance, but I'm still on the disagreeing side. The only way to settle "balance" debates is via statistics.

However, Reaper is one of the playable units and Tank/Thor one of the not-so-playable units. However, the metagame for SDB is currently non-existent. Trying out different unit compositions in team games (for example 2 Thor/2 Tank composition or maybe 2 Sentry/2 Tank) or seeing how they work in FFA (which Reaper will get absolutely demolished) is still not well-known for anyone.

Lobbing is definitely powerful enough. For example, if a Sentry forces people together and lobs a black ball, that's multi-kill.

That doesn't mean we can't make progress of course. The new feature add-on sounds interesting--currency for buying different units.

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Re: Initial thoughts

Post  rut on Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:57 pm

Thanks so much for the kind words and feedback! Let me go ahead and respond to your points.

I do believe the Thor is one of the weaker units, but I have actually seen people do very well with it. It's actually one of my favorite units to use because it's such a unique challenge to wield it effectively. I think the more coordinated a team is, the more effective the more "niche" units like the Thor and Siege Tank become overall.

The rating system is an interesting idea. I'm planning on adding some additional features for a more competitive experience, but I think right now I've got to build the casual playerbase first. Having rankings that progress quickly where losses don't hurt your ranking is good for newer players, I think. But adding an ELO sort of rating (I'm not familiar with the math behind it but I'm sure it's not too hard to figure out) seems like something that wouldn't be all too hard to add in the future.

I hadn't thought of having different dodgeballs from the perks menu do different things. Unfortunately it is extremely difficult to change dodgeball effects, but I was thinking of maybe adding a "competitive" section of the perks menu that would add some sort buffs. It's a tricky issue, though, because it would make it the game a little less accessible to new players, but I think in the future I'll probably add that in.

As for new units, I've got a bunch in mind. Unfortunately, with the huge influx of new players, there's been a lot of bug-hunting that I need to do before I can add things like units and maps. Any units or abilities in particular you'd like to see?

Thanks again for your feedback! It's awesome to have a high level WOL player enjoying the game. If you have any ideas or additional feedback, I'm all ears!

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Re: Initial thoughts

Post  PierceSc2 on Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:21 pm

I understand not having a rating system it is really just a personal preference. I think the best way to implement it would be for it not to affect you negatively but just to be a number for reference. And yes the Elo formula is easy to implement. The ranking system based on experience also works well and I think should stay. It is important for leveling to be quick in the beginning to get a lot of players.

I think it is also important that you have a progression system that lasts a long time. I've played a lot already and the only thing really left for me to do is to get the new dodgeballs which are aesthetic anyway. In fact the only real one that I wanted was the cube because it looks like it has more surface area (no idea if it does).

Making the unlockables gradual and frequent also adds to the fun. For example instead of unlocking a whole row of units after x levels, you can instead unlock them 1 at a time at a slightly more frequent rate.

I like the idea of having passive perks. You could make them really subtle benefits in order to keep the game friendly to newcomers.

And another random thought: You could have random only units. Meaning there are special units that you can only pick by chance when you go random. I've seen some games use it and it is a really fun mechanic Smile. They don't have to be OP but should definitely be unique.

As for new units, I've got a bunch in mind. Unfortunately, with the huge influx of new players, there's been a lot of bug-hunting that I need to do before I can add things like units and maps. Any units or abilities in particular you'd like to see?

I would love to see zergling and phoenix!

just some brainstorming of how zergling could be done: Medium speed, low health. Ability: Metaboost: Gives zergling a temporary boost; Adrenal Glands: Temporary power boost.

Phoenix: Fast speed Ability 1: Graviton Beam: Temporary lifts a targeted dodgeball preventing it from being picked up Ability 2: Hallucination: Summons balls that do nothing (to confuse opponents that pick them up)

Just some suggestions to get your creativity flowing Smile


Here we go--people already experts on balance at this game.

if you are implying that I think i'm an expert on balance I don't. That is why i stated they are just my opinions and called the thread initial thoughts. It isn't pointless to examine specific units and abilities and discuss them. When I spoke up lobbing I was speaking specifically about the infestor ability. You get one chance per cooldown to hit a lob, which is pretty hard to do compared to other abilities.

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Re: Initial thoughts

Post  rut on Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:42 pm

Yeah, the progression system is definitely something I'll be adding to. Right now I'm working on custom death animations that you choose the same way you choose different dodgeballs (fountain of blood, fireworks, etc.). I'll probably add gameplay-based perks too in the near future (maybe if I make the default, starting perk +3 minerals or something universally good, new people won't feel too much at a disadvantage). As for a more gradual progression, I did toy with the idea of unlocking units one at a time per rank, but I decided against it because people reacted negatively to the idea of their favorite units being locked away. The only reason units start locked is so that beginners don't random Mutalisk the first time they play and die over and over and over again while they try to figure out the controls. I've already gotten some bad responses for this system because people want to play all the units right off the bat, so it's kind of a tricky subject.

It's funny with the Zergling, he was going to be one of the first units I made. Here were his abilities:
Offensive: Adrenal Glands, throws two dodgeballs instead of one
Defensive: Metabolic Boost: temporary speed boost

Sound familiar? Yep, I decided that the "Adrenal Glands" concept would work better as a rapid-fire mini-dodgeball attack and then Stim does the exact same thing as Metabolic Boost, so I ended up turning it into the Marine instead! That being said, I've gotten several requests for the Zergling so I'd love to hear more thoughts on what his abilities could be. I'd like not to copy any abilities other units have, so we got to really be out-of-the-box with it.

Having random-only units is a hilarious idea! I can just imagine randoming an Odin and being super humongously big, but it'd only have a 1% chance or something like that.

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